Living Decoloniality, practical examples of decolonial
re-existence through the aid sector, a podcast by Carla Vitantonio with the support of the center for humanitarian leadership.

Welcome to a new episode of Living Decoloniality. I am Carla Vitantonio and the sounds and noises you hear in the background are from the city where I live and work,
Havana, Cuba. My guest for today is Dr. Safieh Shah, whom I met through my ad on LinkedIn.
Safieh and I decided to have a virtual conversation to get to know each other.
While we were talking, I realized the power of Safieh’s story, as she was able at the same time to bring a strong theoretical position on Coloniality together with personal and at times painful life experience.
We worked together to find an adequate way to tell her story, adequate for this space, and this is the result of our work.
You will hear, for example, that the last recording sounds different from the others. In fact, we had to record more than once before we got something that could capture Safieh’s thinking in a relatively short timing as requested by this format.

Let’s hear about Safieh’s story, upbringing and positionality.
Hello everyone. My name is Dr. Safieh Shah and I am a medical doctor from Pakistan. I am also a public health expert and I have over 15 years of experience in advancing the global health agenda.
My journey within this field has been deeply influenced by my upbringing in a community of Pakistan, specifically in the city of Karashi that values humanitarianism.
I have been inspired by the legacy of Pakistan’s humanitarian duo icons, namely Abdul Sattar Edhi, who has passed away and Bilquis Bano Edhi, who is still alive.
Bilquis Bano Edhi, specifically, was the wife of Abdul Sattar Edhi and she is still doing incredible work.
She is a humanitarian, she is a social worker, she is a nurse and she is one of the most active philanthropists in Pakistan.
What I really love about these people is how they have worked on critical issues by furthering and perpetuating the knowledge and experiences of those who have been marginalized and it is from them that I have learnt to do that.
And I have managed to do that in my career and that has been at the centre of my own experience as a woman of color, as a Muslim, as a Pakistani and also as a minority in this country that I live in, not only globally.
I have done that because it has been important for me to use my research and advocacy to emphasise compassion and kindness in terms of what is required moving forward from us as humans in transforming global health practices within the humanitarian sector, which needs to move away from paternalistic and exploitative interactions,
which are rooted not only in colonialism but also capitalism, which is modern day colonialism or neocolonialism.
And instead we have to adopt more equitable, inclusive practices that value local expertise and experiences.
After such an introduction, I ask Safieh to frame coloniality according to her.

You will hear how she first gives a theoretical framework and then provides us numerous examples that unfortunately recall too many stories in our sector.
Coloniality to me unfortunately represents an enduring legacy of colonialism that has been picked up and changed its name into capitalism.
It continues to shape my entire world today and our entire world I feel as well.
It’s not just a historical phenomenon but it’s a persistent structure of power that influences how knowledge is created, who decides what knowledge is created, how it’s created, what is valued,
its knowledge as well as how it’s something that’s spread. I see coloniality manifesting in various contexts particularly within the humanitarian sector and as well in global health practices across the board.
So in my work I often encounter epistemic violence, which is a active harm inflicted to the denial as well as the devaluing of local knowledge,
local experiences and local voices particularly when it comes to women.
This makes their dependency worse and perpetuates it as well as undermines not only their autonomy but also their ability to be resilient in the future and move forward.
I’ve also observed the devaluation of humanitarian workers who are local especially those that challenge colonial patterns.
I’ve experienced that and I have seen other colleagues of mine who have experienced that because they challenge colonial patterns, their expertise and compassionate approaches are frequently dismissed, they’re undervalued and this leads to their silent suffering and invisibility within a system that only rewards colonial patterns and colonial constructs.
I believe this is a direct consequence of coloniality that prioritizes dominant and often western perspectives over local and alternative viewpoints although I have a caveat here, although this is seen as western, it is also something that aligns with local dominant narrative.
So in a country like Pakistan where there is a majority that is aligned with the western perspective and colonial viewpoint and inherited these colonial infrastructures that is just as dangerous and that is the only perspective that is taken up by the humanitarian etc. and the west.
I appreciated that Safieh also acknowledged how colonial patterns in Pakistan and many other countries of the world reinforce pre-existing oppressive patterns determined by the dominant culture.
This adds complexity to our work and tells us once more that binary categories don’t work. Also in those countries that suffered colonialism and new colonialism, there are intersectional factors that determine who has power.
I asked then Safieh to conclude giving me examples of her decolonial practice. In her words she shares a tool or a practice.
I’d like to share a real life tool which our listeners of the living decoloniality podcast can practice. This tool is called Compassion.
It is compassion coupled with curiosity and I feel it is currently a very important topic to discuss given the need for a compassionate and curiosity based approach in addressing the current humanitarian crisis.
Especially like those taking place in Gaza and Sudan.

So I’m going to start by introducing this tool. Compassion is not just a feeling, that’s not what I’m talking about.

I believe and I know it is a powerful tool that can help us navigate the limitations of apolitical humanitarianism which is where we find ourselves right now.
In our current global landscape you can see that we face numerous conflicts that cry out for more than just detached assistance.
They demand a curiously compassionate engagement with the political realities that shape these humanitarian crises.
So why is this compassionate approach so crucial?
First we have to recognize that apolitical humanitarianism often perpetuates systemic injustices such as epistemic injustices as well as epistemic violence.
When those in power remain emotionally detached they risk repeating historical atrocities.
This freezes state response where leaders become numb to the realities around them ignores the deprooted historical contexts of suffering.
By failing to acknowledge these histories we’re essentially sowing the seeds for future conflicts.
Think about it. Current apolitical stances can inadvertently push us closer to larger global crises.
Compassion on the other hand with the lens of curiosity allows us to see how our shared humanity exists and links each of us together.
Consider the coalition that arose to combat Hitler’s regime.
People from different backgrounds united against a common enemy driven by both compassion as well as curiosity for those suffering because they saw themselves in those human beings.
Today however we must ask ourselves how are the situations in Gaza as well as in Sudan reminiscent of the Holocaust.

Why is there so much support for Ukraine but less so for those in Gaza and Sudan?
What is the difference? The consequences of apolitical stances are clear both in Gaza as well as Sudan.
And these responses often ignore the historical as well as the political context that shape these crises, those of colonialism leading to cycles of violence and suffering.
In contrast the humanitarian response in Ukraine has shown us that we can address the immediate needs.
And we can do that while dismantling the structures of epistemic violence that force and marginalizes voices in conflict in Gaza as well as in Sudan.
So what’s the alternative? We need to actively integrate curiosity as well as compassion in our humanitarian work and here’s how.
We engage empathetically humanitarian actors, must prioritize listening to marginalized voices amplifying their stories as well as creating spaces for dialogue that confront power imbalances.
We must also understand complex reality because curiosity drives us to explore the root causes of suffering.
It forces a deeper understanding of the emotional and historical context that keep people trapped in cycles of trauma due to the history of colonialism.
And finally advocating for justice requires us to use compassion.
That compels humanitarian workers not only to empathize with those in distress but also advocate for justice as well as systemic change that tackles the underlying power dynamics.
So this shift from apolitical to politically engage humanitarianism is essential.
We need discussions that recognize historical and political context of colonialism influencing these crises.
In Gaza as in many areas shaped by colonial regimes and legacies addressing these issues is urgently critical.
Ultimately however compassion involves advocating for the rights and dignities of those in distress within political frameworks that often marginalize them.
And so this isn’t just about immediate needs. It’s about shaping futures and breaking the oppressive cycles of the past that are very actively controlling us in our present.
And so to wrap up effective humanitarianism cannot afford to be apolitical.
We must embrace and process compassion internally allowing it to guide our political engagements externally through curiosity of connecting with each other.
As leaders navigate the fears of repeating historical traumas.
It’s crucial for us to foster hope as well as communication.
But this can only be done by stepping away from fear, lead, inaction.
And instead we can envision a peaceful future which is rooted in empathy.
Ultimately that can lead us toward a more just as well as a more humane world.
Safieh example brings us to facts that are very close to us.
And tell us that coloniality is indeed also embedded in processes that we tend to see as objective.
Again, we are called to ask ourselves, what is objectivity?
Can objectivity exist if not contextualized?

You listened to living decoloniality.
Practical examples of decolonial re-existence through the aid sector
I am Carla Vitantonio and you can reach me through my Spotify and speaker channels or through my Instagram Carla Vitantonio.
This podcast was deliberately recorded with minimum technical equipment trying to preserve as much as possible the feelings and intentions of those who participated.
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Living the coloniality was produced in partnership with the Center for Humanitarian Leadership. The logo is present from Eugenio Nittolo